Relationship Game Part 1: The Early Stages

**Update – Blog comment free bootcamp competition winner will be announed tomorrow, I need a little more time to make this tough decision!**

I wanted to write a post about the early stages of relationships, i’m talking about the time after you get the number and before the point where you can relax and say “okay she’s mine” where she answers all your calls and is happy to see you all the time.

An important thing is this phase is keeping your attractiveness and making sure your emotional investment in her doesn’t exceed what she feels for you.  If she sees that you like her more than she likes you, it can kill attraction.  It would be pretty straightforward but women often throw curveballs at you in this phase and it’s easy to make a few mistakes and lose a potential relationship.

The situation:  You’ve met them and had this amazing time, the connection is great and she is very into you.  She gives tonnes of IOIs and you think you are very much in there.  You look into each others’ eyes and feel the s|xual tension and your feelings growing.  Then you part ways.

You are at home/work thinking about her all day, about how great she is and you have butterflies every time you think about the time you were together.  Your friends reinforce your feelings by asking how hot she is and saying “nice one mate”.   You don’t want to go out with friends or meet other women because you are occupied and consumed with thoughts of her.

On the other hand, she is getting on with things.  Pretty girls have a lot more options than guys, they are constantly invited out by their friends, by other guys, and have more people around them.  If she talks to people about her date/first meeting with you, they’ll be generally negative and suspicious “you met him in a bar?  That won’t work!”, “all men are pigs”, “he’s only after one thing” etc.   She will have had many situations where she has had first dates or initial meetings go great only to later have things go horribly wrong.  This is when the reality kicks in.  She needs to protect herself from being hurt so will keep her emotions in check.

So you were both at an 8 emotionally when you were together and now she is at a 4, and you are still at an 8.  You send her a text or call her and use lots of XXs and :)s  and talk romantically.  She sees the emotional mismatch and is put off.  After being with you hours ago and saying you were amazing, now she doesn’t even want to see you.

Instead remember that women’s emotions are momentary.  In a relationship, men can look at the entirety of the history together and put anything she does wrong in the context of the whole relationship.  This gives her a lot more leeway.  Women can love you one minute and hate you the next.  You can do nothing wrong for 6 months and then have one bad few hours and in that moment she’s forgotten about all the good things and thinks you are a prick.

Pace your follow-up game, don’t expect to catch her in the same emotion as she was in when you were together.  Back off a little in texts and phone calls – end calls first, be short, no multiple question marks.  Remember that what she says is momentary and take it with a pinch of salt in the first few days and weeks.  Treat her wonderfully when you are together but don’t verbalise too much emotionally and keep it short on text and phone when you are not together.  Don’t make her a priority in your life too quickly.  Try and be realistic and pace your emotional attatchment to her.

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Comments

  1. Starry Eyes says:

    It's true that pretty girls have more options, but that shouldn't be cause for concern. If she's 'choosing' you, she's choosing you over others and not because she has no other choice. This is a good thing obviously. Instead of seeking out the new game to play, in order to keep her, I think you should act like normal human beings and allow the relationship to grow into a loving one. You have to remember, there are many women out there who can see right through these games, whether they voice this or not. This could lead to unnecessary hostility and because she DOES have other options. She may just become fed up with all the games and find somebody willing to be straight with her. {Age plays a huge role as well. It may or may not work with girls under 27, but anybody older than that may just be put off by all of it because they've experienced life].

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  5. I find the easiest way to pace my own emotional attachment is to continue going out and gaming. By going out and actively meeting new women, not only are you keping your options open, you are meeting new people too. You won’t have time to think about her too much to chode out. If your initial woman is keeping tabs on you via Facebook, etc, she will see all this social activity on there and might become more interested from your social proof. She might become jealous of all the other women and cool people messaging you, and start to chase you more. Ultimately, with the aim of attracting this woman, you’re unlikely to hurt chances by being more aloof.

    On the subject of relationship game, there’s something else I’ve started to notice with some of the guys I’ve been training; in general, guys go through the same progression – the begin by wanting relationships/ sex. After getting some success, they begin to see that game works, and they have discovered this new, powerful skill set that they’re keen to hone. So, they begin gaming more regularly to improve their skills with women and develop this power. The initial objective has changed from “getting women” to “taking this as far as I can”. And therein lies a conflict of interests – having worked to fulfill his initial goal, he is able to get in a relationship. However, if he does so, he isn’t entirely free to take it as far as he can with any new women (for the sake of personal development).

    How does the PUA continue to develop his game whilst still in a relationship? Is cheating the answer? Should the PUA remain single for the sake of developing his new skills? If the PUA stays in his relationship and doesn’t game other women, and instead chooses to develop his ability with relationship management, isn’t there a degree of game still involved in maintaining a relationship? I’m interested in hearing other’s opinions on this!

  6. Gambler,
    This is awesome. I know for a fact that a lot of pick-up artists have trouble with relationship game. It's one thing to get a girl into MLTR or FB land. It's another thing to run solid follow-up game with a girl you've fallen head over heels for.

    Pace your emotional attachment. Wonderfully put. Unfortunately, it's easier said than done. But knowing it is half the battle anyway.

    Would love to see more of your thoughts on "relationship game."

    Cheers, Dr. Asian Rake.

  7. Hey there Pal,

    You will have to be a little more clear about your intentions and the situation if you want any help. You have to realise that every situation is an anomaly: we can’t give you some Harry Potter spell that will work every time. However, if you give us all a little more information I’m sure you will get plenty of advice! The posters on this blog are second to none.

    Regards,
    JonDoe.

  8. hey guys i really need ur help, i really like this girl alot but she is attached and her boyfriend isnt the innocent type of guy i really dunno wad to do, plz help me out yea?

  9. For me, I find that the key thing is to genuinely ‘not want or need anything from her’
    This can be a very hard mindset to be in, especially when you’re with someone you’re attracted to. but the key thing is ‘Inner Game’. Another aspect is being a catch. The best way to be a catch is to know what you want in a girl by qualifying.
    It’s funny as it should really be a woman losing out on a quality man because of her imperfections and mistakes rather than the man. think about it, when a man gets dumped, the usual thing that happens is he questions why he got dumped and then starts to do things in order to recover from it, by being the type of guy she was looking for at the time in the hopes that he will gain her interest,
    Now imagine if we were in that position, where the girl knew that she can lose you at any minute?
    She will literally change the person she is for you to fit the person you’re looking for. She will eventually be your ‘ideal woman’ and thus become influenced by you in a positive way.

    Generally though, inner game is key and i agree that you don’t need to game when in a relationship. I was in one recently which lasted only a month but i noticed something very interesting. She stated that she liked ‘bad boys’. But throughout the whole meeting with her, i was totally the ‘nice guy’; respectful, decent and charming. but at the same time, i used a lot of cocky/funny, frames and dominance throughout which kept things interesting for her. But the biggest mistake i made was i eventually became needy and invested too much emotionally into her. I also didn’t frame the relationship as a ‘sexual’ relationship and started becoming too romantic with her which for those of you who know. Being romantic too early on will give her the mindset that you’re relationship material and will thus hold back the sex.

    If on the other hand you provided sexual adventure to her by being interesting sexual. She will then start to see you as a person to have sex with, and someone who she could be seen with in a long term relationship. In other words, you have total control of where the relationship goes.

    But generally. inner game is key. If you can display, confidence, dominance, indifference/non neediness, standards and be decisive and ambitious. That is all you need to win any girl…. No game needed at all…

    I’m starting to get it due to my previous failure with the girl i was with. i know i’m close ‘cos if it wasn’t for my ‘neediness’, i would have still be with her.

    The question is, is it possible to recover from it after a breakup and win her back?

  10. This is what I thought man.. If you are in the 'game' and you only think of it as routines etc pretending to be someone else then it doesn't feel natural and you want to 'turn this guy off' and start being you. This is why everyone has to learn natural game. Cause if you view 'game' as a self-improvement journey then you don't have to turn any guy off because that more attractive guy will be the improved version of yourself. If what initially attracted to her was your confidence your personality etc and not someone else's routines then you're not pretending. What are you supposed to do when you are in a relationship? Stop being confident or lose your sense of humour, playfulness etc?

    In my view, nothing needs change once in a relationship. It needs to change before that, when you initially meet her. Be natural, be your confident self and everything will feel great! Accept yourself, love him and constantly try to improve him! And by improvement I don't mean learning some guys routines from the internet…

  11. Guys,

    Some great replies here. An interesting thing to talk about is how much game you apply at any point in time once you have done this long enough.

    I used to get called ugly, I had no friends, I was uncalibrated, etc etc. This meant that game compensated for my deficiencies. Now i've learned a lot and my natural self is a lot better than it was meaning that I rarely need to apply calculated game.

    In a relationship, your margin for error increases, meaning that you can do more wrong without losing the girl. You can't get away with so much in the initial meeting. So, do I apply conscious game in a relationship? The only point where I might is where I think I might lose her.

    If you are learning pickup and you are not improving your natural self then you are doing something wrong. It should happen as a function of increased social experience and confidence from success.

  12. Going on from Noels comment, once we've got our Inner game sorted we wont even need to 'game the girl' from the start, never mind game her in a relationship, it will be natural. We will have devloped and improved ourselves so much that we wont need to use canned material, routines etc.

    It's been said in the community before that when you get to a certain stage that you should stop using canned stuff as it won't suit your natural style. And once at that stage, you'll be confident and comfortable enough to use situational openers and just handle the situation naturally without thinking about what to do next. Thats certainly the level Im aiming for, to be a natural.

  13. Gabriel man I just had to reply to this post. I had too because you opened up! I think it is an interesting topic, you know

    "Once I get the girl, should I stop gaming, or just be my Natural self"

    It depends on how you look at it man. I know you mentioned a guy who had been gaming for years, and when he became his "natural self" the girl left him. But I am going to put out 1 thing needed for a relationship to work, which I bet that particular blogger lacked.

    1. Inner game and congruence
    Let’s take this. I think the foundations of game have to revolve around a solid inner game, where you have achieved the following
    • Happy with your fashion
    • Happy with your appearance, weight etc
    • Achieved in other aspects of your life, game, career, sports etc
    • Gym twice a week
    • Meeting up with friends all the time and giving the girl space
    • Be happy with your body language, tone of voice etc
    • Be comfortable in conversations
    • Not being needy etc
    Now if you have your inner game completely sussed, then she won’t break up with you, she can’t lol.
    Now I think (and it’s just my opinion) that if the above don’t come naturally to you, then you are not ready for a relationship. I know I don’t plan to have a girl friend for a while because I am getting these other things sorted out.

    If you are in a relationship, and you find yourself having to remind yourself to not be needy etc, then you are needy! I guess some guys might be worried they have used so many routines and dhv stories that they might have nothing to say in a relationship… but develop your conversation skills, public speaking, acting classes, what I do is hold talks for two hours a week on game to 5 or 6 guys so I get used to speaking in public, and I am also helping other guys out. That makes me happy.

    So, do we have to continue to game her after we get the girl???

    No, because we will have our inner game down to a tee and display all these attractive behaviours. If this isn’t natural to us, then we aren’t ready for a relationship. We don’t need to use DHV stories and negs when we get the girl, but if we have our inner game sussed, our lives will be a natural DHV because we have improved ourselves. We don’t need to use negs because we will have become naturally funny guys.

    So to sum up, get your inner game together, not just so you can PU girls, but to a level that you are congruent with and it is a natural part of your life, and you will get the girl!

    This is my take on the question

    "Once I get the girl, should I stop gaming, or just be my Natural self"

    Cheers, Noel

  14. I’ve always been a bit worried about taking gaming into a full on relationship. I’m quite alright with projecting an image in order to get people attracted to you on initial meeting. We do that anyway, when we dress up to go out, or just generally act more polite on meeting new people than we do around our friends. Gaming is just learning ways of making ourselves more effective at what we already try to do.

    But in a full on relationship, I’m worried that if I start treating it as just an extension of gaming, then we can never really relax with our partner; we’re always switched on, trying to make them more attracted to us, or showing how we’re “outcome independent” from them etc. You can argue that once you reach the level of gaming that say Gambler has reached then it is just naturally you; you are never “switched on”, but only just naturally being, and this is enough to keep them attracted to you.

    But how many of us are likely to put in the effort to reach that level? I still think to get the best out of a relationship, where you both fully love each other and trust each other then you have dispel the entire way of thinking that comes with gaming. Gaming mode works in a particular way, and that way is goal-oriented. You are always trying to achieve something, whether it be (and these are examples I’ve seen on pick up forums discussing relationship game) keeping them on edge as to whether you are honestly attracted to them; making sure you’re always seen as high value etc.
    I am young and naive… I will be the first to admit that i have never been in a fully-matured relationship (only what can most generously be described as abortions), but it seems to me that a loving relationship cannot exist as goal-orientated. At some point you must reach a stage where both of you are happy to be yourselves and enjoy the simple existence of each other. I’m not saying that there will be no problems, no arguments, which must then be sorted out, but surely you get what I’m trying to put across?

    Admittedly this post is only about the very beginning stages of a relationship, before you’re anywhere near the stage I’ve described above. At this beginning stage, we are still effectively just images to each other, small glimpses of another person… and of course we still judge each other as if these very shallow understandings we have are full, unbiased measurements of ourselves as human beings. How long do we have to know someone before we are able to judge if we want to spend the rest of our life with them? Too long. So we judge prematurely based on various factors influenced by natural selection and society.

    I see no problem with trying to manipulate your image to be compatible with these evolutionary and societal factors for the initial attraction, because we do judge prematurely, which means men of otherwise good qualities are left out on the street because they do not compare favourably by these factors, which often have little to do with who you would spend the rest of your life with. But the longer one gets into a relationship the more you should stop consciously manipulating your image to your partner and just relax and enjoy the fact that they are there with you, getting to know the real you as you are getting to know the real them.

    I know this post only talks about the beginning stage but I am worried it will become a slippery slope. I’ve seen posts on forums by people who have carried on gaming years into a relationship. It got to the point where as soon as they stopped using certain techniques, then their partner just found themselves not attracted to them anymore. That does not sound like a healthy, enjoyable relationship.

    But then again, to really just cut myself under, if you’re only looking for a relationship that is basically nothing more than friends with sex on tap, go for it. I’m probably just being a hopeless romantic. I’m not gonna tell anyone what to do nor am I gonna judge them.

    Gabriel

  15. Antonio "Poker" says:

    Yeah, is great that you are actually goint into this topic, since there are a lot of trainers and puas that are under the impression that to be a PUA you need to have lots and lots of girls without caring about them, i like your point of view about this, i think we both share that thinking, well, we mayorly here since i see anothre puas that are posting agree with this, i actually just wanna say that the blog looks awesome now, godd thing the change of colors and patterns, you know, i agree in a lot of your poins, specially the “make her miss you” or to give her the gift of missing you, i had made the mistake before to be all over a girl and that never lead me to anything good to say the truth, a girl even told me once “you should give me some time to miss you” i know, that was maybe just a shit test or a pretext to dump me, and by now i think that was cool since looking back there, i was a really AFC, i dont blame her LOL, she is all over me now that i know what to do and how to act, of course, now, like the hot girls you are talking about, i have more options, son i don´t think to go back with her, im just enjoying my PUA lifestyle LOL, great post, keep with that, by the way, even when i am already a member and already had seen the vault, with is actually pretty good, just wanted to say that is a pretty good idea the video that you put over the sign in box, that really prooves to guys the level of your bootcamps, see ya later guys!

    POKER

  16. I think that girls wear their emotions on theis sleaves a lot more than guys, so it is true girls can go to a 4 from an 8 and usually leaves the guy saying “are you ok?whats wrong? bla bla” I know I was guilty of this before I read game.

    So the advice is true to not be needy and you will get better results

    Gamble makes great points

    1.Pretty girls have a lot more options than guys, they are constantly invited out by their friends, by other guys, and have more people around them.

    This is so true, and I think if more guys could get into this frame of mind, they would become a lot more attractive to the girl! A guy who has things going on in his life is attractive.

    2.Pace your follow-up game, don’t expect to catch her in the same emotion as she was in when you were together.

    true, give her the “gift of missing you”. If your game is tight enough, you will be memorable to her and she will be thinking about you.She will be expecting a text from you, so leave it a while and let her sweat it out, this will amplify her feelings for you

    I think jon DOE’S comment was on the money about the anchoring thing. When I meet a girl, I always leave a message for myself in my phone about something memorable about our date, and then when I go to text her, I anchor the feelings.

    Another good tip is when you are exchanging numbers, put your number in her phone and save it as something funny or cheesy. That way when you text her, she will laugh when your name pops up and her emotional state will go higher than a 4!lols

    Cheers, Noel

  17. Personally, i kind of disagree about the idea that we need to game constantly. Once you’re in a relationship, then you drop the games and just chill…

    Also Pick Up in my opinion isn’t really pick up at all if you consider factors like ‘confidence’ ‘dominance’ and ‘strength’. All of us guys have this… How?

    Because it’s hardwired into us by laws of nature. The thing is, it’w up to us to bring it out. If you demonstrate all of these things to a girl. not only will she see that you’re a ‘man’ but she will find you irresistable and will therefore want to spend more time with you.

    Yes they will ‘shit test’ you, that is part of their nature so that they can constantly be in check to see if you live up to your promise, ‘cos think about it, women want the best offsrpring so the last thing they’ll want is a faker or an arrogant insecure guy.

    Once we realise that we all have what it takes within us, that’s when you know that you’ve got it made for you. You won’t need to be needy because you’re congruent and go for what you want. you’re dominant because its who you are and your job as a man andmost of all.. You’re sexual… Don’t be afraid to show your sexual side to a girl, it’s what she wants and expects…

    This is what women look for in a relationship… Have these and the rest is smooth sailing.

  18. It’s nice to have a post about relationship game. But what exactly is this and what does it mean to be ‘in a relationship’?
    You go out and you meet a girl.. You start talking, have some things in common, feel mutually attracted to each other, exchange numbers and maybe a kiss. When does the relationship start? I think the term has fine lines that are not visible. And let’s say that she leaves but you stay in the club and you meet someone else and you eventually kiss her too. Is that cheating or maybe you are now in two relationships?
    I hear people asking ‘when does the game end’? ‘When do I get to the final stage’? My answer to this is ‘never’. They are asking when to turn off the ‘pua’ and start ‘being themselves’. I don’t think that this actually happens. If you’re into self-improvement, the ‘pua’ (I hate the term but what can you do?) represents the more attractive version of themselves. The alpha male. That was the intend wasn’t it? To become one of those? Why should you turn it off in a later stage? She should be with the person she became attracted to when she met you. Not with someone else.. If on the other hand, the ‘pua’ to you is just a cheap guy who uses tricks and pretends to be someone who’s not in order to fool a girl or two to sleep with him, then turn this guy off RIGHT NOW!!
    I agree that you should have some playful banter and some push/pull all the time and at all stages. That’s what makes it more attractive. And you get to be more attracted to her if you know that there’s some amount of uncertainty. And lastly, when you decide to be ‘in a relationship’ (whatever this term represents to each of you) do this for the right reasons. Not because you’re needy and you can’t live without her’ or because you ‘need her for you to be happy’.. Let her contribute to your life, add to your happiness and do the same thing for her. You can be happy even if you’re single and you’ll live.. It’s not her obligation to make you happy.. That’s something that only YOU can find!

  19. Hey guys, I’m sorry I haven’t posted in the last couple of days, but I have been busy — I have been out and about trying to game in some very expensive shops. Not my usual territory; however, I’m trying to expand my horizons.

    I think that neediness is a problem for many guys, especially in the early stages of a relationship. It can take time to adjust to concentrating on more than one person at once; however, it can be key to your success. When a guy comes on too strong it can even be considered: ‘weird’, ’stalkerish’ and ’desperate’. Believe me guys, you don’t want to be labelled as any of these things; it’s a sure fire way to alienate a prospective girlfriend.

    I agree with Gambler when he says that after the interaction she had dropped down to 4; however, you are still at 8. Instead of staying on this emotional high, it is better to drop back down to 0. Don’t completely forget about the girl, but don’t make her a prerogative. If you are thinking about her more than twice a day it’s way too much. This isn’t being negative, it’s being realistic. It’s training your mind to not play the ’desperation game’. Some guys can hook a woman; however, reeling her in can be a major sticking point.

    Now that we know where you should be, it’s time to focus on the girl. When you contact her or when she contacts you, the aim is to bring her back up to the original emotional frequency — in this case 8. I find that the best way to be successful in this is to use anchoring. If you can anchor the girls original emotional state to little things, for example, something funny that might of happened when you met, etc etc; this will give you an advantage. Once you have an anchor, you can use this to bring the girl back to the same emotional level that you last left on. It’s like a pause button, once you have pressed it again your back on. I like to anchor situations and use them in text messages, for example:

    ‘Hey, it’s JonDoe. Just wanted to say that dancing in the fountain was really fun; we should do it again sometime!’

    The situation was dancing drunk in a fountain; however, the event has other connotations attached to it. It’s all about triggering these emotions and connotations allowing you to recapture the emotional high of the original situation.

    Hope this helps guys,
    JonDoe.

  20. Oh man- so after we’ve put ourselves through months of painfully getting blown out of sets, eventually learning how to get a number, learning how not to have that number flake, working out how to get a girl to come on a date with us…. theres still MORE to do until we can relax and call her a girlfriend?!? lol

    It’s cool to have a post about relationship game (theres rumours that this could be the next big subject in the PU community btw). Some important points raised here, especially about not investing too much emotionally too early. There’s a big difference between meeting a girl just for sex and meeting a girl for a meaningful relationship.

    So if you’re out to find a relationship and you meet a girl, although you may have made her attracted to you theres still a big distance between attraction and love. If you try and jump that distance too soon you’ll end up falling short i.e blowing it.

    What most of the techniques and theories around teach at the moment is, in essence, be the prize. By that I mean that you are strong, you don’t need to qualify yourself, you can handle shit-tests etc.
    So when it comes to an early stage of relationship you still need to be the prize- but obviously you want there to be a point when she’s won the prize, but don’t just put it in her hands…make her walk up to the podium.

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